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Michael Hyatt, Stephen Mansfield, Tony Jones, and Me and You Talk Politics in Hell

June 20th, 2008 | High Calling Blogs, thehighcalling.org

voting is hellTook a quick break from the underworld to twitter my despair and found Michael Hyatt’s tweet. Hyatt is the CEO of Thomas Nelson, and he was bemoaning an author’s woes over a new book they’re publishing on the faith of Obama. (That sounds a little sarcastic, but I don’t mean it to be.)

On his blog, Stephen Mansfield writes about the internet mugging that left him feeling victimized,

Everyone is drawing conclusions from a single article on a single political blog. Yet my secretary has been fielding dozens of emails assuring that I am going to roast for all eternity. I’m deceived, serving Satan, in the employ of Obama, in the employ of McCain, in the employ of Oprah, and I’m apparently not going to be alive on Election Day.

I’ve also had conservative politicians calling in anger and liberal politicians calling in welcome.

So, I’m going to hell. Or, more likely, this is hell and I don’t know it yet. Whatever the case, my point here isn’t that I’m getting smacked. That goes with the job. My point is one that draws attention to a tragic potential of our times: the power to project a lie in the guise of truth at lightning speed.

Mansfield doesn’t link to the Politico.com article for obvious reasons, but here’s the link. Just don’t send Stephen hate mail about the time he’s going to spend in hell burning for writing about Obama.

All of this reminds me of two questions I asked Tony Jones on the phone yesterday. Instead of asking him about the Church Basement Roadshow or another explanation of what he means by emergent, I asked about politics. Why not? I’m bored with the language of who’s emerging and who’s not and whether we should be emergent now or emergent no or whatever. Besides, if Tony’s answers about politics stank, I could always chop them on the editing board.

So I asked.

Tony, what does it look like when politicians worship God through their work?

He answered, and it was a decent answer. Then I asked my real question.

Tony, what does it look like when voters worship God through their engagement of politics?

I haven’t transcribed that answer yet, but it was good, too. By good, I mean thought provoking and insightful.

Here’s the gist: Too much of our political rhetoric comes from our ideologies rather than our theology. It is easier to cling to planks of a party platform than to pray to the creator of the universe for insight into his nature that will bring us wisdom for all of life–whether we are in the voting booth at our local precinct or the dunking book at our local carnival.

OK, I admit that’s a lot of me interpreting what I hope I heard Tony Jones say yesterday.

Let me be even more blunt because this really bothers me. Politics really bother me. The polarization of American politics in particular really bothers me. Why can’t we be passionate about our duty to vote without sending each other to hell? Why can’t I tell you who I like without worrying that I’ll just be encouraging you to prejudge me as a leftist hippie or a warhawk or a socialist or an imperialist?

How would we as voters have a conversation about abortion without condemning the opposing view point as immoral?

How would we as voters have a conversation about war, and not just war but this war in Iraq, without propping up our own shallow opinions with the weight of morality?

How would we talk about economics? education? leadership? integrity? electoral college rules? campaign finance? gay marriage? regular marriage? gerbil marriage?

Are all of these topics too hot to handle? Is the only wisdom to stay out of the places where angels fear to tread?

I want to believe that all work is a high calling. Is there no high calling for voters or politicians? I want to believe that there is.

What would you do if you were president? Does it matter? Because you won’t be.

What would you do if you were a voter? Does it matter?

Viewing 14 Comments

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    "Too much of our political rhetoric comes from our ideologies rather than our theology"

    I don't know if those were Tony's words, or your summary of them, or a little bit of both. Doesn't matter, a brilliant and accurate observation.

    Your whole recounting of Tony's answer is great, actually. Treat all your choices as worship. All your work as a high calling. And all your decisions as worthy of God's leading and input.

    Mark, you've put some words to my feelings and have publicly asked some questions that I think need to be asked, regardless of which party or candidate one plans to support.

    Thanks for that. You rock.

    - Brandon
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    I want to believe that it all matters - that it all is a high calling, but I find myself feeling very weighted down by that. If it all matters, then we need to have the mind of God on all of it - right - else we're going to get our decisions and actions wrong. Since I'm having trouble seeing the higher calling in day to day life- my own life - I think it intrinsically gives me problems with seeing a higher calling in anthing else - if it's not personal first - how I work, how I clean my house, how I file my taxes, how I do dishes - then it doesn't really matter anyway.

    Susan's last blog post..Once Upon A Time
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    Brandon, the distinction between ideology and theology was all Tony Jones. The high calling stuff was all me.

    Susan, it all matters--but the yoke is easy and the burden is light. At least it's supposed to be. Sometimes it doesn't feel light at all.

    I agree with you completely about making it personal first. That's why I wonder if we can even talk about this stuff without being pompous jerks.

    And that's also why I linked to the song "Be the change you want to see" despite it's barely veiled political agenda to promote the democratic candidate.

    There's something "high calling"-ish about taking responsibility for holy living by being it rather than talking about it.
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    That second question (i.e., what does it look like when voters worship through their engagement in politics) is HUGE. I've grown frustrated trying to find the answer for me personally. I really loathe the extremism in politics and all the rhetoric that goes with it. But I also want to be the socially engaged Christian God wants me to become. Trying to find what that means... really difficult. Thanks for this post.

    blake's last blog post..The Opposite of Love is Indifference
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    I admit I am having trouble coming with an answer, mostly because there are so many questions here and I'm trying to discern what your central question really is.

    Maybe the best answer is found in your own marriage... a wife who claims "liberal" on Facebook, while you instead claim "moderate." Yet you live and love together. Why, you even went so far as to have children!

    Can we, should we live and love together despite our differing views? How far do we, should we go in expressing that love? Simple tolerance? Or do we produce, even, "children"?

    Sorry. It seems I have finally answered your question/s with questions of my own. : )

    L.L. Barkat's last blog post..Visitation
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    hi brother,
    first, i would like to know what you mean by "bothered by". if something is bothering us to a certain degree, i wonder if it is time to take a good look at where it is actually coming from, and how it is working out in your life... can it be questioned and examined from a spiritual point of view. how are we as Christians to react to the uncomfortable feelings of frustration or anger that may bother us when we are looking at other people and questioning their beliefs and their life choices? if the choices seem unfair or do not match up with what we think is right...what do we do with these feelings. we must be careful of the fine line that we can easily cross into a place that is not right for ourselves in how we look upon others and how we conduct ourselves.

    nancy's last blog post..a new song... go ahead and sing it
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    It is an interesting time right now, with Tolle writing about how to connect with the divine by abandoning the ego and Wright's book about the Kingdom of Heaven being something that Christians are supposed to be working on bringing about here on earth. Lots of writers (Christian and non-Christian) seem to me to be pointing to pretty much the same thing. The solutions come from love and acceptance, not from trying to conquer or change. It is frustrating to feel that all the political leaders seem out of touch with the movements toward harmony and stewardship. And, personally, it is demoralizing to feel that there is nothing that can really be done about the sort of people we are supposed to choose from... A few months ago, I read The Great Awakening by Jim Wallis, which goes a long way to breaking your second question to your Mr. Jones into specific answers covering a whole array of areas and issues.

    I also have to say that I think it is possible to talk about big issues without sounding like pompous jerks. Ego drives our need to be right and to win. Being solely interested in one's own "rightness" and in proving to the other that they are wrong rather than having a sincere desire to deal with a situation in wisdom is choosing to be a pompous jerk. Being able to accept that sin is everywhere (in all of us) and that issues like abortion, gay marraige, war, or the death penalty really do have sin on both sides of the issue makes an actual dicussion possible rather than the usual debate.

    Dana King's last blog post..the difference between me and my daughter: more excerpted reflections
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    Mark,
    Thanks for this post. Where can I find the interview with Tony Jones?
    Also, I like the last set of questions "What would you do if you were president? Does it matter? Because you won’t be. What would you do if you were a voter? Does it matter?"
    Well of course it matters because that's how we pick someone who can veto congress and lead the ship of state.
    Also, in the end I'll vote like most people - for the candidate most like myself.
    Ok, maybe I better think about that.
    -Sam

    Sam's last blog post..Politics, Anger at God and Children’s Boredom
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    Thanks for this excellent post, Mark. I just rant ... uh, expressed my opinion about the polarization in America, too, though I focused on how it affects our endorsement/recommendations regarding works of art. I'm putting much of the problem at the feet of a lack of discernment. Much easier to parrot the opinion of Big Name Christian than to examine Scripture and draw a reasoned conclusion I believe to be God-honoring.

    So too with politics.

    But here's the real deal. If My Guy gets elected or not, I still have the responsibility to pray for the President. I wonder if Christians took that role seriously what God might do in the life of that man, whoever he might be.

    Becky

    Rebecca LuElla Miller's last blog post..The Turquoise and Red Mentality
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    I agree that we need to start with ourselves as to begin to understand where our "high calling" lies, first at home and then with the special works God seems to set before us, for which we're specially designed (Ephesians 2:10).

    But we must work to bring it out into every area. After all, we're commanded to love God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength- and with that to love our neighbor as ourself, at the same time praying that God's will will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

    So I think we have to work through the muck of politics and I don't think this election, for example, is a clear cut case of black and white. And even with the platforms of the two major parties- for me the same, not black versus white.

    So I think we have to pray, to be in the word and seeking to meet the high calling of God for us in all of life, beginning where the rubber meets the road in our own lives, and then work at making the best judgment possible in voting come November.

    I'm an Independent registered here in Michigan and have been kind of rethinking my anabaptism which is admittedly not entirely pure, anyhow, though anabaptism really includes a spectrum. But I think we Christians need to be involved in public life. Maybe it's the Calvinism where I live rubbing off on me a bit, but that part of it I think has a good point.

    And I think as long as we're working through this, and trying to be informed as well as subjecting it all to God in prayer and our reading of Scripture, then I think we just have to make the best decision we can, and vote accordingly.

    I know how I'd vote if I had to do so now, and I'll listen to both, and let the process play out, but I'll be glad when it's all said and done.

    Ted Gossard's last blog post..quote of the week
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    Welcome to the Emergent side of life. That is basically what the emergent conversation is in a nut shell. Thinking through life and the stinky cheese that goes with it, thinking through how we have really manhandled the situation and how we can bring what we do back in line with our beliefs and with the biblical call to live life in accordance with it.

    Carl Holmes's last blog post..Prayer and the power within it
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    Gerbil marriage?

    L.L. - it's not hard at all ;).
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    See, this is the problem I have with todays political conversation: if people disagree on an issue, they immediately deem the other their enemy. Instead of recognizing that there is a difference of opinion, they immediately assume that the other person is personally attacking them.

    If we could all learn to separate personal attacks from cognitive dissonance, we'd all be much better off.

    The Inklings met in an Oxford pub and discussed vastly different ideas about God, theology, politics, philosphy, etc., and were the best of friends for it. They were some of the most brilliant minds of this century. We would all do well to learn from their example.

    Sarah Martin's last blog post..It's official...
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    It is an American luxury today that we can be friends with those that think it OK to let a baby born alive die, after all, we are not babies. I think the death toll since Roe v Wade makes Germany's attempted annihilation of the Jews look half way decent. Perhaps Dietrich Bonhoeffer's Confessing Church had it all wrong after all. One thing's for sure, there's nothing new under the sun.

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